I am sitting here this morning listen to Jimmy Buffet sing about Margaritaville which made me start thinkin’ about drinkin’.
This coincides with my preparation for Sunday’s message on Matthew 6:13 praying for God to not lead us into temptation but deliver us from evil.
I will start with my conclusion: I am totally opposed to the use of alcohol (unless you have a cough or are preparing your arm for a shot). If someone asks me, I will tell them I do not think they should drink.
I think drinking is silly. I see no useful purpose for it, particularly given the variety of beverage options available to us today.
I think drinking is dangerous. I know many people drink moderately with no discernible affect on their lives (at least yet). They control it. I know that wine is like women, allegedly according to Luther. I have probably seen most of the arguments in favor of the beverage use of alcohol. And I agree with most of them.* And I still think it is silly to drink.
I have seen the affects of drinking on personal lives, on families, on communities. I have talked to people who do not remember what happened last night because they were too drunk. I have talked to people whose spouse is ready to divorce them over their use of alcohol. I have talked to people who are in court-mandated counseling for their drinking.
And I have to wonder, Why take the chance?
I know … You are saying, “They weren’t drinking in moderation. They were drunk and we all agree that is wrong.”
And I still have to wonder, Why take the chance?
I do not think the Bible categorically condemns moderate consumption. I think some passages assume the beverage use of alcohol and say to control it. I think the Bible absolutely condemns drunkenness. I think it possible to drink without getting drunk.
I also do not think the Bible condemns jumping off a thirty foot wall into a three-foot pool of water. Flying through the air can be one of the most exciting, liberating feelings in the world. The view is great, and God created beautiful vistas for us to enjoy. You can do it without hurting yourself or your family.
But wisdom seems to say there might be a better way.
Now, of course, we can have all the discussions about the difference between our wine and their wine. And there probably are some, and perhaps not as much as many people like to argue.
I roll my eyes every time I see an evangelical talk about having an adult beverage with friends. It is like a badge of freedom, almost a flaunting of it. It reminds me of Jr High.
In the end, my argument about the beverage use of alcohol is not a biblical and exegetical argument. Which will no doubt cause some to question whether or not I am even a Christian, much less a fundamentalist.
My argument about the beverage use of alcohol is about plain old common sense. I do not think it is a sin. I just think it is silly and unnecessary.
No, you will not cause me to stumble if you invite me out to eat and have a glass of wine. So feel free to invite me out to eat.
I am not going to attack you or question your Christianity. I think you can be godly and have a glass of wine with your dinner.
I just think there is a better way.
___________________________
*No, it isn’t like caffeine, which I rarely drink either, except when I am at the diner, where it is the only choice. And it isn’t like overeating.
11 comments:
I would certainly hate to be a struggling alcoholic who is a member of your church. Your view of alcohol consumption is both weak and unbiblical. Bob Jones Press and Bob Jones University have played a part in promoting drink by moderation in their recently published book on alcohol. The book has brought a firestorm across America. It's weak approach on drinking in moderation adds fuel to the turning of the tide in fundamentalism of social drinking. May God help us, even in fundamentalism, today! I hate liquor and every Bible-believing Christian should hate it with a passion and preach against it as long as God gives us breath! That, friends, will be where the true victory of overcoming the curse of booze will come from!
If I can be Godly and have a glass of wine, then I can be Godly and say one curse word. Or, I can be Godly and lust just one time. Your reasoning is unjustified. When God's word says to stay away from something - or not lust - or not curse - then do it. There still are some things that God views as unquestionable. Lust in our hearts is wrong; cursing is wrong; and the Bible warns us of the strong drink - it's wrong. Stay away from it - don't even look upon the wine! Just abstain. That's the Godly choice! May God help us...
I deal with alcoholics all the time. I have made it clear that I don't think a Christian should drink. I think it is stupid. There is no reason for it.
The book by BJU Press hasn't brought a firestorm. It's barely known about. In fact, I didn't know about it until recently when I saw it in a clearance store at BJU. It says you should completely abstain I think (I flipped through the ending once), which is what I said.
I hate liquor as much as you do, Mark. I hate what it does to families. And I am too often the one left to pick up the pieces of it.
But we have to say what Scripture actually says if we are going to be people of the book. When we say things that the Bible doesn't say, and people then read the Bible nad find out we said something the Bible doesn't say, it affects our integrity and it affects the way they listen to us.
Our first goal is fidelity to the Word, not maintaining cultural norms or repeating old arguments.
Paul puts drinking wine in the same class as eating meat in Romans 14. Are you saying we should totally abstain from meat? That's a tough stance. I am too much of a fundamentalist for that.
Mark, I love you man, but we have to get to what the book says. I can preach the word faithfully and clearly and say you should totally abstain as a matter of wisdom and testimony. I cannot preach the word faithfully and say you should totally abstain as a matter of command.
BTW, the Bible treats lust and cursing different than wine. It doesn't say "don't be addicted to lust" or "don't be given to much lust." It says don't do it at all.
There are some things that are unquestionable. I completely agree. And for me, alcohol is unquestionable. I will not do it. But the Bible doesn't say that.
I was thinking some more while I was playing golf this morning.
If you are a struggling alcoholic, you might hate being in my church because I will be hard on you. That's what I do. I deal with them every week, and tell them, you have to stay out of bars, out of stores that sell it, away from people who drink. Period. No exceptions.
As I said above, I tell everyone they should not drink.
To say that BJU Press is "promoting drink by moderation" is, I think, borderline unethical. If we are talking about the same book, I think it clearly says that we should not drink. That type of statement should not be made. If you are talking about a different book, then tell me which one and let's see what it says.
So again, we have to say what the Bible says. We must not set up our own standards, no matter how wise they may be, as the absolute norm. If God had wanted to say "Total abstinence is the only way of godliness" he could have done so. He did it with other issues. He did not do it with wine. That should be instructive for us.
You are going to hurt fundamentalism by saying things that Scripture doesn't say.
It certainly is fine for one to abstain from all wine and strong drink -- no argument from me there, just a hearty amen. Also, like you, I roll my eyes at the way some Christians talk about and practice their non-abstinence -- the junior high factor is often beyond cringeworthy.
Nevertheless, one cannot say that it would be wise for all to abstain, or that anyone who does not abstain is silly. Unless one maintains that (1) the Bible contains some unwise passages, (2) the Bible promotes silliness, and that (3) Jesus was unwise and silly.
Psalm 104:14-15
14 He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;
15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.
Ecclesiastes 9:7
Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
Matthew 11:19
The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, `Behold, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified by her deeds."
Luke 7:33-34
For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. 34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
I could go on, but even these passages should be enough to demonstrate that (a) Jesus drank wine that could lead to drunkenness, and (b) there were other things to drink even in his time (seeing as how John the baptist didn't drink wine).
While it is fine to abstain from wine, drinking wine is not like jumping off a 30 foot wall into 3 feet of water. The Bible never praises high diving into shallow pools and Jesus never did it.
Keith
Thanks Keith. As I said, I agree with virtually all the arguments you make.
I just don't see the need for drinking alcoholic beverages given this time of abundant choice. I think most agree that the abundance was not there in the first century. If someone disagrees, I am fine with that. If someone does it, I am not going to get bent out of shape.
As always I appreciate your reading and I enjoy reading your comments.
Thanks Larry,
I have no desire to be quarrelsome, so one finally clarification, then I'll be quiet for your last word.
The point I was trying to make (and maybe all have understood, if so I apologize for the redundancy) was that the Bible does not treat wine as something that's just "ok" or just "ok if there's nothing else safe to drink." It appears to treat it as something very good. Yes it also treats it as something very dangerous. There are a lot of things like that: marriage, sex, the pastorate, food, wealth, etc. They're all good and dangerous.
I don't doubt that today there are more safe non-alcoholic beverage choices than in the ancient world. But even then there must have been enough to make total abstinence possible since John the baptist and the Nazarites abstained -- which examples, by the way, also prove that there can be good reasons to abstain beyond an addictive/alcoholic constitution.
Nevertheless, most people in the ancient world drank wine because it was good and because it was celebratory -- with Biblical endorsement.
Anyway, I'll close by agreeing with you that there are many, many people who should totally stay away from alcohol.
Keith
I have a book somewhere that explains the wines of the Bible and non of them are fermented according to this book. I have noticed that one of the signs of getting saved is getting away from drinking. This is one of those subjects that I would rather err on God's side than take a chance.
I think a book like that (and I have some) are probably not entirely accurate in the claim that none of the wine of the Bible was fermented. I am not convinced that today's wines are identical to ancient wines, but neither am I convinced that they are completely different.
I also think that the contrast between "God's side" and drinking assumes the conclusion. If God's side is total abstinence, then fine. But that has to be argued, not assumed.
I think Keith wants to be on God's side too.
So there are a lot of sides, and I am unconvinced that the Bible demands total abstinence. I do think however that it is the best choice. And if anyone asks me, I tell them they shouldn't drink.
Larry, this is Mark Ward of the blog marklwardjr, NOT the Mark Ward who led off your comments on this post (as anyone who knows me should have figured out immediately not only because I wouldn't speak that way but because it's unwise for someone to trash his employer!).
Did Blogger give you any information—or did that Mark Ward leave any—that might identify him? I'm slightly concerned that someone took my name and is abusing it.
mlwj
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