Wednesday, August 02, 2006

What Would You Say?

Today, I was having breakfast at the diner while reading Alex Hadidian's excellent book entitled Successful Discipling.

The waitress, whom I know fairly well from a couple of contexts, was serving other customers and in the course of conversation apparently allowed some profanity to slip out. She said, "I'm sorry, Larry." Then to the guys sitting out the counter, she said, "I shouldn't say stuff like that with the preacher sitting behind you." (When they don't call me "Larry" (my preference), they call me "Pastor" or "the preacher.") She apologized to me, even though I honestly have no idea what she said since I was paying attention to my reading.

She then made the comment, "That's why I don't go to church. God is going to come down on me anyway, and I don't want him to do it while I am in church."

What would you say in response, with three or four men sitting at the counter?

_________________________________

I must admit, this is one of those areas where I struggle. I love talking theology and life, and I am usually pretty comfortable once the conversation gets started. But there are times like this where I draw a complete blank about what to say.

The strange thing is that she owed me no apology. First, I had no idea what she said. Second, it was not offensive to me. I expect unbelievers to act like unbelievers. I have no problem with the world acting as the world. The problem is when believers act like the world.

However, this experience ties in well with some Hadidian says in his book (several times) about the power of example: We best learn how to do by watching others do it. Being around someone who is boldly evangelistic would help us to learn how to turn conversations to the gospel.

So what would you have said in reply to this woman, during breakfast hour at the diner, with three or four men sitting around drinking coffee?

10 comments:

Anonymous said...

Excellent topic and points of discussion. This is exactly why I always wear my WWJD (What Would John Calvin Do?) bracelet. I would have told the waitress that yes, she was correct. God is going to get her if she is not one of the elect, whether it's in church or not. Even if she repents it will do no good. Conversely, she could swear like a sailor while preaching at church and it would be no problem because she is one of the elect. It doesn't matter either way. Her destiny was preordained billions of years ago.

Jon from Bucksport said...

Well, despite the excellent remarks of anonymous I will venture my humble opinion…
Larry, I struggle with this type of thing too. I sometimes wonder if it comes from living in Faculty Court! But I think it is a great opportunity to bring in the ridiculousness of people worrying about whether a preacher overhears you say something when the Bible teaches that nothing can be hidden from God. Also, the sentiment that "God is coming after me" is a great place to insert that "God is not willing that any should perish" or "The times of our ignorance…" The latter was a favorite tool of my grandfather. He would look at someone like this girl and say, "Did you know that God winks?" Then he would just repeat Paul's sermon.
Thanks for sharing this struggle and being transparent.
Also, I hope you will look at my post today and give my your feedback. I am eager to hear your thoughts!

Thomas Pryde said...

It matters less whether God is going to come after you and much more as to how he is going to come. Ultimately, every individual will be gotten (every knee shall bow). The real question is whether you are on His good side or His bad side.

Larry said...

Anonymous,

That is a pretty poor picture of Calvinism, as it is commonly called. It bears no real resemblance to what Calvinists believe in the main.

I appreciate your reading the blog, but would ask that you take care to be more accurate in your posts

And please use your name when you post here.

Anonymous said...

Larry, I just made another excellent comment and I tried to leave my name this time, per your request. Does this thing work? I don't see my comment so now I'm going back to anonymous.

Anonymous said...

Ok, I can't figure out how to leave comments other than in anonymous mode. I'm not a good typist so I'll quickly surmise what I tried to say:

Basically my question/statement was wondering why you even care what this waitress or anyone else thinks of you? Why not go to a restaurant to enjoy a good meal without having concerns for others? All the employees' fates were determined billions and billions of years ago. Maybe there's an employee there destined for Heaven, but most of them God are going to make to go to Hell. What you say has no bearing on the issue at all. Actually, if anything, you perhaps should have told the waitress to swear it up and live it up now because this is the only chance she'll ever have to enjoy existence.

By the way, I'm not sure what you meant about my previous comments being not accurate. The only thing I can think of is that you are an Armenian and are of course wrong in that case. But being an Armenian, I could understand how you would mistakenly think I am incorrect.

Larry said...

As for leaving your name, you can set up a blogger profile, or you can just type it out as in "Larry" or whatever your name is.

As for your comments, there are numerous inaccuracies. I will comment only a couple.

1. It does matter whether one repents and how they live. If they repent, they will be saved. If they curse from the pulpit, they are giving evidence of not being saved. So that part of your comments was inaccurate.

2. God does not make anyone go to hell. People go to hell of their own free will because of free rejection of Christ.

3. The implication that what we say doesn't matter beause people have been predetermined (the biblical word is elected or chosen) ignores the biblical teaching that preaching is necessary for salvation. It does matter what we say.

4. I am not an Armenian, nor an arminian. I am an American and a Calvinist.

So your comments about soteriology were inaccurate on a number of levels.

Anonymous said...

Hello Larry! I hope you are having a good day. (Although, that's just a figure of speech. Your day today was predestined billions of years ago, including reading this web site. You have no control over what you do.)

Perhaps we are not going to get anywhere with this discussion because you seem to be confused and misguided. Although, I think it's an honest misguidedness and you actually think you are correct. I am a Calvinist and I think you are possibly a Confusionist. You seem to have an undue concern with "witnessing" and your "testimony" before others. On the surface I agree that it's a good idea to live right before others. But in the end, our thoughts and actions are pre-determined anyway, so it's not as if we can either take blame or credit for anything we do or don't do. All I was trying to tell you was to go to a restaurant and enjoy the meal and quit caring so much about what others think. If they are one of the non-elect, (which most people are, by the way) then you'd almost be living ungodly by being nice to a person. How dare you show kindness to a person whom God has made simply to go to Hell!? That is presumptious.

Patrick Berryman said...

Larry,

First, Anonymous is either a particularly agressive and misinformed hyper-calvinist (doubtful), or an antagonistic arminian who makes up in absurdity what he lacks in rhetorical skills.

Second, this is one of those situations where a witty response would elude me. Was it a profanity against God, or just a vulgar expression? I suppose I would say nothing and, since you are a regular, I'd ask her privately why she thought it was necessary to make that observation. That could lead to a discussion of conscience, and how our conscience serves to both condemn us and to bring us to God.

Pat

Anonymous said...

Mr. Berryman,

This is Anonymous again. I see what you're saying and I understand you're point, but your point also is an oxy-moron. I am a Calvinist, but there should be no such thing as an "aggressive Calvinist". True Calvinists aren't aggressive about anything. What's the point? We know everything is pre-determined so why bother? It's a live and let live attitude and about as passive as you can get because we know that no matter what we do, the outcome is still going to be the same.

Larry, I like you and even though you are wrong theologically, I hope I haven't offended you. You seem like a decent fellow.