tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13873773.post2854653264636191984..comments2023-09-17T08:45:50.720-04:00Comments on Stuff Out Loud: Piper on Baptism and Church MembershipLarryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04886866662463467215noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13873773.post-76040713187012120542008-09-06T09:53:00.000-04:002008-09-06T09:53:00.000-04:00I too eagerly listened to Piper's messages to try ...I too eagerly listened to Piper's messages to try and understand why they were pushing this issue. He had excellent apologetics for membership and immersive believer's baptism. I understand the pushback because after hearing his sermons I came away with three things. 1) It is vital and biblical for every believer to be a member of a local church. 2) Immersive believer's baptism is the most scriptural and historical way for all the scriptural data to be accounted for. 3) An important part of church membership is to be in submission to the elders God has placed over him in the church. The third point is where I think it falls apart. As you said Larry, what if I come into a church and want membership but I tell them up front that I disagree with their view of Mosaic authorship and I will not change my mind. They should not give me membership. Why would baptism be any different. Piper also made a good point about not setting the bar too high or everyone would have to go to seminary before they could join a church. However, It seems that each church has to have some distinctives that folks have to sign off on in order to join. If you don't then you just muddy the waters later when these people teach and disciple. I always wondered why, if Piper wants to pursue this, that he didn't just come to the church and rename it Bethlehem Bible Church. It seems that it is impossible to for a Baptist church to accept members that have not been baptized by immersion as a believer.Jon from Bucksporthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01263042828697185129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13873773.post-26279004566446128722008-09-06T08:21:00.000-04:002008-09-06T08:21:00.000-04:00Thanks for bringing this up Larry. I have always b...Thanks for bringing this up Larry. I have always been confused as to why baptism is viewed so universally as a requirement for church membership. I really honestly have never been able to see the case for it Scripturally/logically. I find it fascinating that a big name has actually argued for the position now.<BR/><BR/>Regarding your two points, I'll venture my thoughts:<BR/><BR/>1) I would argue that the idea of "higher" or "lower" standards is a bit of a misnomer. The key is to be biblical wherever that may put us. If we take membership seriously, we ought to require only what Scripture requires as prerequisite to it.<BR/><BR/>2) Do we currently require them to hold to our position on all of these issues? Do we check? Really the issue boils down to a particular church doctrinal statement and whether someone must agree with it in whole (does anyone *completely* agree with their own church doctrinal statement?) or do we make allowance for differences in certain areas...<BR/><BR/>Grace.<BR/><BR/>JasonJasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11403876571610524450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13873773.post-69910772295643520652008-09-05T23:10:00.000-04:002008-09-05T23:10:00.000-04:00I do not see why they are going to rehash this aga...I do not see why they are going to rehash this again especially in light of what Acts 2 says regarding baptism.<BR/><BR/>I think Piper et al. are making a big mistake...<BR/><BR/>But there will be those who will still worship and hang on every word that Piper says, and they will leave their Bibles aside.Terry Langehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14585501399585695282noreply@blogger.com